# #640 性格は関係なし! 会話の成否は｢2つの原則｣で決まる…なぜか嫌われる人､好かれる人｢7つの分かれ道｣ - Show: プレジデント音声版 - Published: 2026-10-16 - Canonical: https://podc.club/en/episode/1525273315_23071fb296d0.html - Audio: https://traffic.omny.fm/d/clips/a10fab0c-08e4-4ce4-abed-aeb601152bcc/fa8d9e0c-1e7b-4e5e-81c9-aebc0016b5a2/c136b586-07ea-473e-aad2-b4e400742c0e/audio.mp3?utm_source=Podcast&in_playlist=2bdab59e-ba3e-4897-b598-aebc0016b5b0 - Source: Edited from a machine transcript of the first 30 minutes of the episode. Not an official summary. President magazine editor-in-chief Takahiko Hoshino (星野孝彦) presents an episode based on an article by Yuya Adachi (足立雄也), CEO of Tinect, titled 'Seven Forks in the Road: People Who Are Liked vs. Disliked.' The episode breaks down two foundational principles of likable conversation and offers concrete techniques for four common social situations—complimenting, advising, making a point, and responding—then closes with Hoshino's own philosophy on interviewing and a memorable encounter with comedian Tsurube Shofukutei (笑福亭鶴瓶). ## What this episode answers ### What are the two core principles of conversation that make people likable? The two principles are: ① talk about what the other person wants to hear, and ② let the other person talk about what they want to talk about. Most people do the opposite—they talk about what they want to say and try to extract what they want to know. ### How can you show appreciation to someone without using flattering words? Instead of offering a compliment, bring up the thing the other person wants to show off and let them speak about it themselves; if your wife has cut her hair, simply saying 'You got your hair cut' is enough to prompt her to share, and 'Tell me more about that' can be the best compliment of all. ### What should you do when you find yourself about to give unsolicited advice? Ask first, 'Is there anything I can do for you?', and leave it to the other person to decide whether they want a solution or just someone to listen—holding back an answer is itself a form of trust. ### How can you stop yourself from pressing a point when you feel you are right? Count to three, then ask yourself, 'Do I want to win this argument, or do I want to solve the problem?'; the key insight is that a likable person is not someone who wins arguments but someone who moves them forward, captured in the phrase 'Fight the problem, not the person.' ### What does editor-in-chief Hoshino consider most important for leaving a lasting impression in an interview? Hoshino focuses on whether he can ask a question the person has never been asked before, believing that drawing out the same old answers is disrespectful to the subject, so thorough preparation is non-negotiable. ## Article ## Two Core Principles of Conversation — Yuya Adachi on How to Earn Trust The episode centers on an article from the October 9 issue of President magazine, 'Seven Forks in the Road: People Who Are Liked vs. Disliked,' written by Yuya Adachi (足立雄也), representative director of Tinect and CEO of Work Wonders. Adachi is an alumnus of Deloitte Tohmatsu Consulting and the author of the bestseller *What Smart People Think About Before They Speak*. Early in his career Adachi was repeatedly told his explanations were hard to follow, yet the guidance his company gave him was refreshingly direct: stop relying on surface-level communication techniques and win on substance. After accumulating many failures he developed his own conversational ability, eventually reaching the point where clients would say, 'I want you on this again.' From that experience he distilled two master principles: **① talk about what the other person wants to hear; ② let the other person talk about what they want to talk about.** Most people, he argues, do exactly the reverse—they talk about what they want to say and try to draw out what they want to know. ## Four Situations That Reveal Likable Conversation **Complimenting.** Words like 'wonderful' or 'amazing' carry the risk of sounding generic. A better approach is to raise the topic the other person is proud of and let them do the talking. If your wife has cut her hair, simply noting 'You got your hair cut' is enough for her to take it from there. Adachi's former employer had a principle he calls *homesta* (褒めスタ)—start by praising—and he notes that 'Tell me a little more about that' can function as the highest compliment of all. Reaching for a judgment or evaluation, he says, is itself a sign that you are prioritizing your own agenda over the other person's. **Giving advice.** Unsolicited advice is noise. People only act on decisions they made themselves. Have you ever offered your wife a smart solution the moment she said she was struggling with something, only to be met with irritation? What she wanted was not a solution but someone to sit with her in the problem and help sort out her feelings. Likable people ask 'Is there anything I can do?' before offering any advice, leaving the answer with the other person. Adachi also cautions that the impulse to advise often conceals a desire to display one's own knowledge. **Making a point.** 'A likable person is not someone who is strong in arguments but someone who can move an argument forward'—that is Adachi's conclusion. Righteous positions are almost always tangled up with emotion, and two emotions colliding never produce a constructive path forward. He likens it to throwing a pro-wrestling move on a stranger in the street. When you feel the urge to press your point, count to three and ask yourself: 'Do I want to beat this person, or do I want to solve the problem?' The phrase that cuts to the core is: 'Fight the problem, not the person.' **Responding.** Repeating 'I see' or 'Is that right' over and over is less effective than nodding only as much as you genuinely understand. If something is unclear, it is fine to say 'Let me think about that for a moment' and go quiet. What is truly dangerous is pretending to understand. After a client once told Adachi bluntly, 'Enough of that—stop bluffing,' he learned that saying 'I didn't know that, I should have studied harder' builds more long-term trust. The strongest communicators, he suggests, may simply be those who are best at keeping their need for approval in check. ## Hoshino on Interviewing and Tsurube Shofukutei Reflecting on the article, Hoshino shares his own philosophy of interviewing. Meeting a celebrity is not enough; the real test is whether you can ask a question they have never been asked before. Because he considers it disrespectful to elicit only the same familiar stories, preparation is indispensable. When thorough preparation leads to something unexpected coming up, he says, you can simply ask 'Please tell me more'—and that can itself become the angle of the piece. By contrast, Hoshino describes witnessing the opposite kind of mastery in an interview with rakugo comedian Tsurube Shofukutei (笑福亭鶴瓶). Tsurube's interest in whoever is in front of him is entirely genuine: he noticed that Hoshino was wearing unusual glasses with a floating lens visible from the side and spun that observation into a conversation that had everyone in stitches. Without any preparation at all, Tsurube naturally drew out what the other person wanted to talk about. Hoshino observed that this style works precisely because Tsurube has no gap between his public and private self, which means he never gets tired of it—and that it is a living embodiment of the two core principles. ## Takeaways - The two master principles of likable conversation are 'talk about what the other person wants to hear' and 'let the other person talk about what they want to talk about'—most people habitually do the opposite. - In every situation—complimenting, advising, debating, or responding—the shift required is the same: move from your own agenda to the other person's, replacing praise with prompts, unsolicited solutions with 'What can I do for you?', and winning arguments with solving problems. - The foundation of conversational ability is managing the need for approval: saying 'I didn't know that' earns more long-term trust than bluffing your way through.